Slovakia’s ex-Defense Minister Jaroslav Nad’ made history as a politician who was responsible for giving Ukraine nearly a dozen MiG-29 fighter jets. Ironically, it is precisely for this move that the current government led by Robert Fico is now pushing criminal charges against him, accusing the former official of treason and sabotage against the country’s own air defense network. Nad’ told Ukrinform of some details around the handover of warplanes, explained why it’s beneficial for Slovakia to have Ukraine as a full-fledged NATO and EU member, reflected on the possible reasons why Fico seems to maintain a pro-Russian position, and touched upon the issue of humanitarian demining in Ukraine, in which he is currently involved.
[embedded content]HANDOVER OF MIGS BY SLOVAKIA OPENED THE DOOR FOR OTHER ALLIES TO FOLLOW SUIT
– So much to discuss amid the ongoing war and the efforts that Slovakia has put into helping Ukraine during your term in office. So Slovakia, in fact, became the first NATO Ally to transfer combat aircraft to Ukraine, You took an important step in supporting our fight for sovereignty and territorial Integrity, sending a symbolic signal to other allies to follow suit, demonstrating readiness to help. Do you share the opinion that you provided the initial drive for similar initiatives from other Allies?
– Yes, but as a matter of fact, we discussed that with several allies during the process. There were some countries like Poland, with whom we actually agreed, because we had MiG-29s and they had MiG-29s. So we actually decided to do it as a group. Then there were countries that had spare parts for MiG-29s or for other planes, including grounded ones. So yes, there are several countries that first provided former Soviet-era equipment, including supersonic jets. We were really the first ones to do so. And it was a good decision. I’m proud of that decision and I’m a proud of a very good cooperation that we had with Ukraine and others, including the United States, in actually arranging the setup for this move. But in last days, when we when we were ready to deliver, I had a phone call from other minister. I don’t want to name the exact NATO Ally. And that minister, she told me that, actually, they decided to provide F-16s, so that was the second step. So, I think that the first step with MiG-29s was the most important one to actually open the door for others, and it helped.
– Going back to those days. Do you remember any particular challenges in making that decision? What reservations did you have in that regard?
– It was a significant step. Not all countries had supersonic jets capable of flying to provide them to Ukraine. We had 11 of them. Four of them were capable of flying and seven of them were capable of flying after some maintenance. There were discussions whether we should fly them to Ukraine or go with ground transportation. It was not only a question of technical status but also political. Would it be okay if we fly over Ukrainian territory those Slovak, NATO supersonic jets? So we made arrangements, political arrangements, diplomatic arrangements. It took a while. And we have also invited Ukrainian pilots and technicians to come to Slovakia to look at those MiG-29s to service them, to make some repairs. So in the end four flew into Ukraine and a lot were delivered by ground. Those four were actually with Ukrainian pilots flying them. So after an international contract was signed, that we have donated those MiGs to Ukrainian Armed Forces, Ukrainian pilots flew them to Ukraine. So yes, there were some diplomatic discussions, it took a while, but at the end of the day we delivered, and that’s the most important part of it.
FICO IS NOW REPAYING RUSSIA FOR ASSISTANCE HE MIGHT HAVE RECEIVED IN THE ELECTIONS
– And now the big story. The investigation launched against you, against your office, into actually making that particular decision to transfer these capabilities, these planes to Ukraine. You are being accused of the alleged treason, going against the interest of your own country. This is being done by the new government led by Mr. Fico. What is your stance on that? Do you see this as a politically motivated move? What is behind it?
Robert Fico and his party won the election in Slovakia back in 2023 by lying to people on the situation in Ukraine, they had pro-Russian positions. Allegedly, Russia helped them significantly with social media involvement, let me put it this way, and political activities to win that election. And Robert Fico is now actually paying back for what he got from Russia. He is a completely pro-Russian politician, just as the whole government that he leads.
And yes, before the election, they were using anti-Ukrainian rhetoric, an anti-government rhetoric including attacks on myself, that I’m traitor to our country, that my decisions were leading to sabotage against our own forces because we have agreed with Ukraine and others to provide S300, MiG-29s, and other equipment and ammunition to Ukraine. So he won the election and now he, or rather, the people who elected him, his electorate, they want to see that I am actually put in jail because he promised just that during the election campaign. And so they started several investigations against me and other members of the former government. Actually, yesterday, on Thursday, they announced publicly that a special investigation team has been set up in Slovakia to investigate my activities on helping Ukraine, those military donations. They request that I be imprisoned for 25 years for treason and sabotage, which is crazy, not normal, and completely politicized.
We used to have politicized cases in former Czechoslovakia in 1950s, where Communists were using police and judiciary in order to get rid of political opponents, and this has never happened since the fall of Communism. But now we have it in our country, and Robert Fico, being Prime Minister of Slovakia, a NATO Ally and EU member state, should now look in the mirror, and that mirror should be provided by other Allies and EU countries, of the democratic world. That’s to show him that what he’s doing now is well, well, well beyond anything that is possible to be considered as political behavior. This is really a behavior of somebody who is a complete slave to Moscow and the Kremlin. So they should change very, very soon.
SLOVAKIAN AUTHORITIES ARE NOW COMMUNICATING RUSSIAN NARRATIVES
– Would it be correct to assume that the society in Slovakia is now divided on the issue of NATO, EU, and support to Ukraine? As you said, the electorate wants the government to deliver on the promises they mad during their campaign. Obviously, disinformation that’s flowing from Russia, from pro-Russian actors, might have contributed a lot to that, as it does in any other country. So, what do you think would be the most efficient way nowadays to fight that disinformation, to try to reach out to those people, not to allow them to fall for those false narratives?
– Yes, the problem is that the government itself is communicating this information. That is lying. That is communicating Russian statements. Putin last Sunday, as a result of a probable “Okay” from Washington on the use of ATACMS rockets with a longer range, announced that this might lead World War 3 and that this is something that’s against the interests of peace. You know this rhetoric that Putin uses quite often.
When that happened on Sunday, Fico delivered a speech alonog the same lines on Monday. If you didn’t see the face of the speaker, you would think it’s Putin who is saying that, not Fico. So the government itself is communicating disinformation. And even the members of government, minister of defense, minister of interior – attend dialogue discussions in disinformation media, not in normal media. So the normal media in Slovakia, democratic media, don’t have frequent presence of members of government because they choose those disinformation media linked to Russia, to discuss with no opponents issues of their interest, including many times blaming on me, lying about me, about our assistance to Ukraine, our foreign and defense policy during the previous government.
And with this, they try to cover up the problems that they have in the government now because Fico’s government is actually losing its power day after day, their parliament majority is only by one member of parliament. They don’t have a good situation in economics and people feel it, so they use a Russian network of communication. So anyone was looking for a cure against that, the cure would be to close down the Russian network of disinformation media in Slovakia. This is difficult because we’re now talking about freedom of speech, but if somebody is not acting in line with the law on media in Slovakia, we should do something about that, including close it down, those “media” that the Russians support very much.
CHINESE-BRAZILIAN PEACE INITIATIVE WOULD GIVE PUTIN TERRITORIAL BONUSES
– Going back to international politics, we know Slovakia’s stance on the Peace Formula and Victory Plan. At the inaugural Global Peace Summit in Switzerland, foreign minister Juraj Blanar emphasized the importance Russia’s participation in the process. Do you agree with the notion that Russia should be part of that peace track or should they be kept out of it for as long as they pursue this aggression?
– In whatever peace solution format that comes, Russia should be involved because Russia should pay for everything they did. So obviously, we see, and the whole democratic world sees who the aggressor is, and who is the victim. If you look at the UN General Assembly, you can see how many countries support Ukraine and how many countries – perhaps five or six – support Russia. That’s five or six including Russia… And I think it’s 190 on the Ukrainian side. So countries around the world know who the victim is, and we should all help the victim of aggression. If Slovakia’s foreign minister is asking Russia to be involved, yes, because they have to pay for it. Like Germany had to pay, like Hitler, like Reich. They have to pay for what they did. Putin is now doing the same thing. And they have to pay for it. It doesn’t mean that we will take into account what Russia is saying they would like to have as a result of peace negotiations. Because this would mean that we actually support the aggressor. If the aggressor gets something out of their aggression, it would be a bonus for them. No aggressor should get any bonus off their aggression. So, yes, the whole world community should unite and provide a strong response in order to show to Putin there’s no way for him to get anything positive from his aggression, from the killing of innocent people in Ukraine.
– Just a short follow-up. What is your stance on the alternative so-called “China-Brazil” initiative?
– The so-called China-Brazil initiative isn’t anything else than a list of things that are okay, and a bonus for Putin to get the territory he illegally took from Ukraine. And this is for, for me. And for everybody who supports international law and order, supports the victim based on the UN Charter, this is impossible. And I’m so sorry to say that the new government in Slovakia (I know, they have already been in power for one year), this government is actually now calling that Brazil-China plan as the basis for discussion. It shouldn’t serve as basis. The only basis should be Justice for Ukraine in this process.
PUTIN WOULD HAVE NEVER INVADED UKRAINE HAD THE LATTER BEEN ACCEPTED INTO NATO IN 2008
– Given that the war is now getting on a new level, escalating and expanding in many domains, what main challenges do You see coming from this war for the Central and Eastern Europe and what role can Slovakia play in contributing to ensuring stability in that region?
– If we want to have stability in the region of Central and Eastern Europe, we should have countries of Western Balkans and Ukraine as members of NATO and the EU. Now I’m talking about Slovakia’s national interest. As a former Defense Minister in Slovakia, a politician in Slovakia, I can tell you that in Slovak national interest is to have all our neighbors in EU and NATO. And Ukraine is now the only country from among our neighbors that is not in EU or NATO. So as soon as Ukraine gets into NATO and the EU, the better security and defense situation of Slovakia will be. So it is in our national interest to get Ukraine into NATO and the EU as soon as possible. I can tell you one thing. If the Western world, NATO and EU countries had agreed with accession of Ukraine to NATO in 2008, when discussion was quite active, none of this would ever happened. None of what happened in 2014 or 2022. Putin would never have dared to do that. So NATO accession and EU accession means peace for everybody in that club. NATO has in its history not a single situation where somebody out of NATO would attack a NATO member. And this is actually the best way to explain to people in Ukraine how important it is to become a NATO member. Nobody dares to attack you if you are a member of this club, the stongest, the best defense alliance in world history.
UKRAINE IN EU WOULD MEAN ECONOMIC BOOST FOR EASTERN SLOVAKIA
– Robert Fico now stands against Ukraine’s prospects for joining NATO, which perhaps is also part of his domestic political agenda, or as you say, him paying back to Russia for the assistance they might have provided to him to win the elections. At the same time, he doesn’t oppose our EU aspirations. We know that the government has expressed readiness to help Ukraine on its path to the EU, in particular in the fields of energy, security, and infrastructure projects. Possible initiatives include joint energy projects, modernization of transport infrastructure, and exchange of knowledge in the field of energy and project management. In your opinion, which initiatives could become the most effective for deepening bilateral cooperation between our countries?
– I’ll give you an example of Eastern Austria before Slovakia joined EU. Eastern Austria was the the least developed, or one of the least developed, parts of Austria. Because it was actually at the end of the road. And there was Slovakia there – no EU, no NATO member, no economic ties. So the development in this part of Austria was very low.
Immediately, when Slovakia joined the EU, cooperation between Eastern Austria and Western Slovakia started to rise. There was an economic growth. Infrastructure, projects, even cultural cooperation. And now this region of Eastern Austria is one of the most developed ones in Austria, maybe after Vienna. So this is actually what we see as a potential for Eastern Slovakia. If the EU is enlarged with Ukraine, the cooperation between regions of Sobrance or Michalovce in Slovakia on the border with Ukraine with the regions of Uzhhorod or Lviv would raise the potential immediately. The cooperation would be significant, and the economic results will be very visible immediately.
Therefore, whatever project we find, including energy, including transportation, including the use of Uzhhorod Airport, which by the way is just 100 meters, really 100 meters from our border, why shouldn’t we use that for Eastern Slovakia? Why? It’s complicated now because you have to wait for several hours on the border. But if the border is open, there’s potential for growth for the whole region, including, and mostly for Eastern Slovakia. Therefore, yes, we should support whatever projects that are mutually interesting. If in some way we can help you, in some way you can help us. That’s cooperation. This is how it works. So I support all projects that are working, but what I see is that the potential of projects that Fico agreed with Prime Minister Shmyhal is actually low. It’s not enough. I mean the projects are good but not enough. There are many many other areas where we should cooperate, and EU and NATO membership would lead to significant cooperation in many, many areas.
DEMINING WOULD COST TENS OF MILLIIONS OF EUROS SO UKRAINE NEEDS INTERNATIONAL SUPPORT
– Any economic growth, especially when economy is affected by war, requires a solid foundation. Now we have a huge problem of mine contamination. After you completed your service as minister of defense, as you took the helm of of the Supervisory Board at the Ukrainian Demining Systems, the company that deals with humanitarian demining. What do you see as the main challenges standing in front of organizations like yours given the level of contamination. What initiatives or technological innovations could help speed up the process of clearing our land of those mines and UXOs?
Yes, I feel very close to Ukraine. I like Ukraine, I have many friends here, and when I was asked to support the projects for humanitarian demanding in this country, I agreed to it immediately. When I was able to help as defense minister, I did so, and if I’m able to help now as a former defense minister with some connections, with the possibilities to help in a way, then I will do my best in order to support that.
Approximately 150,000 square kilometers of territory in Ukraine is potentially of high risk of mines and other ammunition parts that might be in the area. 150,000 square kilometers is actually equal to the size of Czechoslovakia. So, in reality, even after the war ends, and I hope it will be soon, it will take dozens of years to make the polluted areas safe. And it will require a huge amount of money. We’re talking about tens of billions of euros. We’re talking about, I hope, a joint international program to help Ukraine, because this is not only a question of safe environment for people in Ukraine, this is also about food security in the world.
Grain from Ukraine before war was actually feeding almost half a billion of people across the world. Half a billion is equal to the size of EU population. So, if simplified, I’d say that you actually fed the entire EU population with your grain. And now it’s problematic, obviously. So indeed, there is a huge amount of work. If I can personally somehow be involved, I’m happy to do so and I will do my best. But I strongly believe that the world should unite in helping Ukraine because no other country in the world has seen such a big problem with the demining and polluted areas, including what was once agricultural fields, as Ukraine has now. Slovakia can share its experience because we have very good deminers and systems. Our UDS company uses Bozena demining systems from Slovakia
There are also countries like Croatia with their experience from a war they had in 1990s, and some other countries, too. So if we all pull hands together and and do good things together, I believe the result for people in Ukraine will be visible.
– Do you run any projects that are intended to rally International support for demining efforts?
Absolutely, absolutely. Yes, the UN is involved as well as other humanitarian agencies, because everybody sees the problem. Just the other day, there was another accident, a tragedy when mines exploded and killed innocent people here in Ukraine, somewhere in the field. So, Trust me, there are initiatives and we will open new initiatives, new projects in order to get support from the world.
Because again, there’s calculation that maybe up to EUR 40 billion is needed for demining in Ukraine. There is a study done by Croatian experts saying t one year of hostilities actually means six to seven years of demining afterwards. So if we are talking about almost 3 years of war, that’s besides the Crimea situation, it’s 20 years of demining. And if we take into account Crimea, we’re talking about maybe 50 years.
– Maybe artificial intelligence will help us.
Absolutely. Unmanned aerial systems, as well as ground remotely operated systems, and also underwater demining. UDS has a certificate now for underwater demining as well. If we talk about demining, we usually think of a fields, but there’s waters, seas. There are also polluted with mines and other explosives. So, yes, with UAVs, AI technology, it all can help. And you don’t put sappers to risk that much if you use unmanned systems or AI.
YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN YOU HAVE TO ASK UKRAINE FOR HELP
– To wrap this up, I have one final question. Imagine yourself in your position in 2022, today. Would you make the same decision to transfer warplanes and other capabilities to Ukraine knowing of the repercussions, the attack that you are now being subjected to? What would you do? Would you do the same thing?
I get this question from media in Slovakia and some international journalists as well quite a lot, and every time I say yes, and I would even speed up the process because with those MiG-29s there was potential to speed it up a bit, maybe do it half a year earlier.
With the S300 air defense system, honestly, when leaving the post of defense minister, I received a list of successful operations of the S-300 system that we provided to Ukraine – how many planes have been hit, how many missiles have been intercepted. I was so happy because I realized how many innocent lives have been saved. And even if it helped to save one life, just one, Ii would still be worth it.
But now I believe that it helped a lot, it helped to save families, houses. We all should do our best in order to help the victim of aggression. I’m so proud of the former prime minister Eduard Heger, Ivan Korcok and Rastislav Kacer, my former colleagues from the foreign ministry who helped me a lot. I’m so proud about of my colleagues at the defense Ministry, our Chief of tge General Staff who is still in position, General Daniel Zmeko, they are those who supported me a lot to do our best in order to help Ukraine.
Because this is about responsibility and about values. And I believe that freedom in Ukraine will keep a free government that we’ll have a very good friendly relationship with Slovakia and vice versa. I hope that the new government in Slovakia will have very good relationship with Ukraine. Because you never know. When you have to ask Ukraine for help. This is about good friendships and neighbors. We are neighbors. And we believe that every time when you need help, you ask neighbors first. So, if you ask me again, yes, I’m so proud of what we did and we would have done that again. Absolutely, yes.
Ievgen Matiushenko, Kyiv
Photo by Pavlo Bahmut
