“I thought I was dead,” this is how Oleksandr “Genius” Shyrshyn recalls the encirclement he and his comrades found themselves in 2022. Despite the desperate situation, they managed to survive and continue the fight. Oleksandr is in command of the 47th battalion within the Magura Separate Mechanized Brigade, which currently holds the defense in the hottest frontline areas. In particular, the battalion he leads partook in fierce battles in the Pokrovsk direction and performed combat missions in the Kursk region of Russia. For his personal courage and heroism shown in battles with Russian invaders, Oleksandr Shyrshyn was awarded the “Order of Courage” Medal 3rd class and the “Order of Bohdan Khmelnytsky” Medal 3rd class. In this interview of the series “Victory Commanders”, Ukrinform talked to Mr Shyrshyn about the situation on Ukrainian battlefields and in the Pokrovsk direction in particular, about the Kursk incursion, challenges of mobilization, and what civilians in Ukraine need to realize and accept.
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– So, you were not a career service member and had a civilian job while enlisted in the military. However, you have already risen from a soldier to battalion leader. Which events do you think have shaped you into the military man you are now?
– A little update: I wasn’t enlisted as a soldier, but as an officer after having graduated from military department at civilian university. Starting, perhaps, from service as a soldier, I was learning while serving as part of the 89th Separate Airborne Assault Brigade. I was lucky to get there just at the time when there were a lot of motivated people there. Some of them had good military experience, were ready to share it, to train and teach. Afterwards, lots of different events happened on this path and during my service as part of the 47th brigade. That is, I participated in many different battles, in different situations, and this is exactly what shapes you.
– In what fronts have you fought during the full-scale invasion?
– Almost in each of them: Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk, Kharkiv fronts and also the Luhansk region, on Svatove – Kreminna axis.
– In 2022, you sustained an injury while in encirclement outside Zolote in the Luhansk region. How did it happen?
– At that time, my company was in reserve, we received an order to seize and occupy a certain line. My first question was about a threat of encirclement. I said it would be more appropriate to withdraw people from out there. No one gave me an answer at that time. But at a later time, as we all saw, know it, a decision was made to withdraw the troops. And our company was tasked to hold one of the flanks. After most of the troops had already been withdrawn, we too received an order to withdraw. I clarified if we could drive along the same route we had entered, because I received information from my comrades that a [Russian] tank entered it. I received information that it was possible, that the route was clear. I clarified it again, saying, “Is that for sure? – Yeah, definitely”. We were driving out of the location, were approaching the village of Pidlisne when we saw the tank parked in a tree line. We drove about 50 or 60 meters away, we saw it, and it “dismantled” our convoy. The first two rounds hit the vehicle that carried me and my comrades. We all survived. Our convoy was broken up, but almost everyone stayed alive.
– Was it because you were lucky?
– I think it was good fortune, because at that short range, and given the situation that developed there, it was unrealistic that I and those alongside me would be able to survive.
– What were your thoughts when you realized that you might not be able to get out of there alive?
– Everything happened very quickly. When the first shell arrived, everything went white in my eyes, and my first thought was: that’s it, my war is over. It seemed I had died. Then, when the second one arrived, my first though was that my comrade next to me had died. When I saw that he was alive, we began getting out, were already thinking about how we would get out and help all the other people get out.
– Could this have been avoided?
– Definitely yes. I can’t say that this was a big mistake by higher commanders or anyone else, because in that area, events were happening so quickly that you couldn’t follow everything. One of the problems that developed back then was a lack of unit-to-unit coordination, and it is lasting to this day. A unit, for example, does not convey truthful information to another, and consequently, not knowing the true conditions, you can get into situations like that. I don’t think these are isolated cases – what happened to me, because I have encountered other stories where the situation was very difficult.
– How often did you have disagreements with higher commanders? And how ready are you to defend your opinion, especially when it comes to preserving the lives of your personnel?
– Regarding conflicts with the higher command, the question here is what we consider a conflict. The kind that goes to the point of transferring to other units or putting you or your personnel at risk, or doing some dirty work – such situations didn’t happen frequently. If we talk about situations where I raised my voice or was raised voice at, such situations are numerous. As for defending my opinion – yes, I do it all the time. And I think that most people who know me can confirm this. There are missions that are worthy of the risk we have to take. There are missions that are not worthy of it. Where a mission isn’t worthy of the risk of my people being subject to lethal danger, I will do everything I can to at least ensure the mission is altered.
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– Do you always feel confident in the orders you’re giving?
– Not always, actually. War is such a thing that you cannot predict some of the events. Accordingly, if you cannot predict them, you have to think something up. During combat operations, situations arise that you have never encountered in your life before. And you cannot say that your decision is 100 percent appropriate, because previous experience did not foresee this. You have never had this before. So you take a risk, make a decision. And it is only after this event has occurred that you can say whether your decision was appropriate or not appropriate. Therefore, it is impossible to be 100 percent confident in the orders you give, and even less so in these circumstances. It is impossible even for experienced commanders who have not only combat experience behind their shoulders, but also some sort of training.
– How do you cope with the responsibility trusted in you? What are you guided by when making decisions?
– There are several things that need to be guided by. That is, above all else, I am ready take on the responsibility for the orders I give, for the decisions I make, for the actions we take. Second, we are mainly engaged in defensive operations. This involves making an assessment of whether the risk that arises before us is worthy of the goals that we have to achieve. And it turns out that I must be guided by the principle of preserving the lives of my personnel. This a crucial restriction. War is impossible without losses and injuries. Here you need to assess the risk to the life and health of your personnel against the goals and tasks that you are performing. I often ask myself if I am ready, for example, to do what I tell my personnel to do.
I had moments (now there are much fewer of them) when, for example, a Bradley was leaving for a firing position. At times, I got into the vehicle, drove out together with the fighters, to feel it for myself, to feel what the fighter understands at the moment when I tell him to do this, and how realistic or unrealistic it is. That is, I try to do most of it that way.
– Was there a moment when it was difficult for you to give an order?
– Yes, of course. The most difficult thing for me in this war is to lose personnel. These are the people who have their families, relatives, loved ones, etc. And the loss of any of them is very painful for me. There are missions that are very high-risk, and you understand that losses cannot be avoided, not just casualties with slight or medium-threat injuries that you manage to evacuate and he will be alive, healthy, there is nothing terrible in that. And you understand that someone will never return, someone will not be able to be taken out of battlefield, etc. Such orders are difficult to give.
– Are there any specific approaches, specific rules applied in your unit?
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– I came from civilian life, so I apply some processes I employed in my civilian job to my current job as military officer. For me, it’s vital that people can think for themselves, can take on the responsibility. These are probably the two main factors that I pay attention to. I am trying to ensure that everyone is treated equally. Indeed, at times I indulge someone. Let me give an example: there were fighters who went out with me to positions during assaults, who were by my side while on missions, were running with me along the trenches, and at some point, I do not know the reason why, they refused to carry out the tasks. I submitted a report on them. I shall say more: they do not take offense at me for this. Afterwards, they returned and started doing their job.
– You are the holder of medals of the “Order of Courage” 3rd class and the “Order of Bohdan Khmelnytsky” 3rd class. For what did you receive them? What do these awards mean to you?
– These awards mean little to me, except that they are a memory of my comrades with whom we performed tasks, or who performed tasks under my leadership. And merits for some of the achievements that I have in my life as a service member belong to them. And for me, this is probably the only meaning that these awards can have. I can’t say that they motivate me, that I am thirsty for awards, striving for them and trying to do it in every way. I received the first award just after being wounded, when we ended up in an ambush while getting our convoy out of a danger area. The other one – I participated as part of my group, with the guys from my company, in capturing several positions. There was also some additional work done there.
– For how many days did you come to Kyiv?
– For a few hours, just talk to you – and I’ll return.
– How do you feel in the city?
– A little bit uncomfortable, and there is something that annoys me a little bit.
– What exactly?
– For example, the fact that many people do not live in war. They do not understand the threat facing us. They continue living their usual lives. I have nothing against people living their usual lives, but you must comprehend what is going on at the frontlines, must do what you can to bring our victory closer. But many just don’t care at all, unfortunately…
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– What should people comprehend now that they didn’t comprehend during the time of war?
– Comprehend that this is an existential threat to our existence as a country. And if they think that the enemy will treat them kindly if it captured some territory, then no, it won’t be so. If they don’t invest in our victory, we risk being defeated and remaining under the occupation of those who want to eliminate us. It’s as simple as that.
– What changes would you like to see? And what do you mean by saying that civilians too should invest in victory?
– I would really like us to start with the issue of mobilization. What has been done so far so that all these processes – recruiting people and training them – are taking place properly, so that we don’t feel shortages, so that we don’t have problems recruiting personnel. The authorities are not ready to make difficult decisions. People are starting to believe in the many fakes that are circulating on the Internet and elsewhere. They are starting fights with military enlistment and recruitment officials, with the police, etc., although I do not justify their actions where these are illegal. But they have a job to do recruiting personnel. Fighting with everyone in a row, displaying your reluctance to go defending your country, it is very, very deploring.
Consideration number two concerns an understanding, an awareness of your duties. For some reason, a lot of people are inquiring: what did this country give me? I apologize very much, but, for some reason, everything was fine with you until now: studying, getting a driver’s license here. Go to Germany, get it, apply for a license there, pay the amount of money it takes. For some reason, you were fine with getting your teeth treated at a dentist. Why haven’t you been treated in Germany all this time? And such like. And now they are asking what this country gave them! The country created conditions for you to live and work. You are supposed to be ready to defend your country’s interests at time of war, ready to stand up for the defense of your country and people.
– Should the government be tougher on its policy of mobilization?
– I wouldn’t say it should be tougher, but the processes should be better organized. There should be an appropriately built responsibility. If a person is reluctant to do the duties imposed on him by the Constitution or legislation, or by moral obligations, he must sacrifice something, give something. That is, he should not be entitled to the privileges that this country provided by creating certain conditions. And, importantly, we must understand: there are general human rights, which is okay, and there are the rights that are won with blood in wars, through losses, etc. Not everything that we have now and can use for our good comes from nowhere. No, someone won it and paid a price.
– So, this is an issue to be dealt with by the government in a systemic way, and also an issue of people’s motivation?
– Definitely yes. We cannot say that it is the government alone that is to blame for everything, or the people alone that are to blame for everything, or the Armed Forces of Ukraine alone that are to blame for everything. No. Everyone has their own part in this, this is a kind of a triangle, one could say. Everybody has own share of responsibility, and everybody in their own field, must self-improve, everyone in their own area must change their approaches, everyone must learn lessons. Otherwise, we are unlikely to achieve anything, anything good, I mean.
– Now that we are talking about mobilization, I want to ask you a question about lowering the mobilization age to 18 years old. What do you think about this, will it really improve the situation?
– I cannot give an unbiased assessment. I assume that this can improve the situation for a while. We can recruit young people, strong, energetic, trainable, those who would be trained into good soldiers, who will defend their country. The question here is how we look at our future. We already have problems with demographic security, a demographic crisis. The loss of people of this age can further exacerbate this problem. My question is: where are 30-35-year-old men in the army? Just show them to me. For some reason we run from one extreme to another: either 18–20 years old, or 56–58 years old. Where is the middle link? Why do they get involved so little?
– What about military training in general? What is lacking: time, quality, something else?
– I will speak for myself, as I see it as a battalion commander. First, we must teach people the lessons drawn from the experience of our combat operation/, which will allow them to stay alive on the battlefield for as long as possible. That’s to say, we must focus on the most vital, valuable lessons learned and implement them. Not to teach service regulations, not to fill out papers. We must choose particular areas to focus on. Shooting training, tactical medicine and suchlike are vital indeed. That is, there are directions of priority in training future soldiers, and we must train them within the time allowed for this purpose.
Challenge number two is coordination. I can recruit ten people who underwent training at several different training centers, and still will have to teach them some skills that I need them to have. That is, I need them to become a combat team. I have to spend more time where I have it to allow them to adjust to each other, to make them into a team. If only the centers had trained them as teams, at least at a squad level, so that I could obtain a ready-formed squad where there is a squad leader, a sergeant, where soldiers know each other, understand each other, can work together, this could benefit the results. This is not done for some reason.
I also think (this is rather more of my wish list), that we could achieve a little better or higher efficiency if the unit to which these people will be sent for service had the opportunity to train them according to its specific needs or assist in their training. Why? Each commander will conduct combat operations differently. Each brigade is tailored for different specific tasks, different specific frontline areas. And when the commander knows what he needs, what kind of fighters he needs, when he understands what tasks he is participating in, he can add certain elements that, for example, other brigades will not have, and thus his unit will become better. There are aspects that we need to pay attention to and change.
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– Do you train people?
– Whenever possible.
– Do you apply your specific approach or are there some basic skills that you teach above all else?
– Yes, there is a set of basic skills, that is, I have a specialized team who train personnel. We have planned out, proceeding, again, from our experience, what the personnel need to be taught, we have prioritized this training. Accordingly, we provide an individual training program, which is one and the same for every infantryman. Later on, taking into account that a person can show himself in different ways, he can be transferred to some other position, assigned a different role, and then we provide some specific training. And, most importantly, the soldiers are trained as a team. Similarly important is what I have mentioned above: each unit leader applies his own approaches, his own style, let’s call it that way, and he will train personnel that would meet his own standards and goals. In view of this, the management styles and the ways tasks are performed will differ in the first company and the second company. And after combat team training, after this refinement, it is the company leader who will do the “finishing touches”. These finishing touches are specific to each unit, meaning each unit leader will do it differently.
– Do you have a recruiting campaign?
– Yes, we do, and it works.
– What is the situation like with this? Are volunteers joining?
– The situation is probably the same as in most brigades. I can’t say that it is the best. People are trying, searching, but due to the lack of personnel, the result is not what we would like it to be. People are joining, there are not many of them, and, most interestingly, almost everyone wants to serve either in a drone warfare subunit or somewhere far from the frontline. These are the two most preferable directions everyone wants to serve in. Why? Because people are scary of the risks usually faced by infantry soldiers, vehicle crews, or those who perform front-edge missions.
– What is the situation like with the availability of equipment, armaments, and, perhaps, are there any vacant positions?
– Yes, vacant positions are always there, there are lots of them: Bradley crews, infantry, mortarmen, that is, the people who can work in any of the areas within our activity range. As for the equipment, for now it is not worse compared to what was available to us when we fought in the direction of Pokrovsk, but we hope that it will be better, I would really like it.
– Why should some choose your battalion over other units?
– I think this is, again, a question to be better asked to the people who serve in it. What would I like to say about my battalion? I have the best weapon crews, the best vehicle crews. I think many of you have seen videos of Bradley crews working, how much work my soldiers did, in what situations they worked; each of them is worthy of being written a story or even a full book on.
I am proud of many people from my battalion, and Bradley crews are among them. These are the people who have never given up or failed, no matter how difficult the task before them seemed. These are the people who came under attacks from FPV drones, anti-tank guided missiles, artillery, who lost their comrades, changed vehicles and got out, understanding that their actions, the work they do at that given time will save lives on the front line. And, in addition to saving lives on the front edge, this will also provide an opportunity to hold the front line, thus boosting the survivability and warfighting effectiveness of allied units next to them. People who cross over their fears, over their “I don’t want to”. When a crew came to me, one of my best crews, I explained the task: look, over there is the area where a hostile ATGM is working. They tell me: if you give the order, we will do it, let it be the last time, but we will do it anyway. This is worth a lot, so I have someone in my battalion to be proud of.
– You mentioned the Pokrovsk direction. What was the situation like there at the time you fought there?
– Events started relatively well for us, we were holding Stepove for a long while, and it was a good result, I will tell you. I wish you had seen what was going on out there, how many assaults we endured every day, how many vehicles the enemy was throwing into battles, how many personnel, how many enemy soldiers were “grinded” by us in those tree lines and in that village!
– How many assaults did you endure every day?
– We had them non-stop: six, seven, eight waves, armored vehicles were continuously arriving, three or four at a time, if memory serves, there were long convoys arriving in one day, that’s quite a lot. And, considering the amount of forces that were engaged there, considering that it all was happening on a small piece of land, the fact that everything had already been “mowed down,” the result we achieved was very good.
– If we lose Pokrovsk to the enemy, what should we prepare for next?
– The war will continue, we will lose more settlements, and someone will see Russian tanks in their gardens, unfortunately, that’s the reality.
– Why do you think the Russians are throwing so much effort into this direction. Is that because they want to report to their electorate that they have fulfilled some tasks set as part of their Special Military Operation (SVO), reached the administrative borders of the Donetsk region, or do they have other strategic goals?
– I think that any classic war has both military and political goals to be achieved. I think that they are striving for both, that is, Kramatorsk is one of the largest cities in the Donetsk region that they have not occupied yet, plus the junction, plus it is not far from the next region on their plan for occupation — Dnipropetrovsk. They also often declare some kind of victory, their successes – this heightens their motivation to continue, heightens their warfighting spirit, this is what they can feed to their consumers, etc. Plus, they are trying to show the whole world to see that they are capable of something, that they are determined to win, that they will achieve what they set for themselves.
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– Here let’s talk about the Kursk incursion. Do you think it was feasible? Whereas this issue was debatable before, perhaps now there are answers, at least you have them.
– Regarding the Kursk incursion, was it needed actually? I think yes, it was needed. Did we do right when we invaded there? I think so, based on the information available to me. Plus, I think that, had the Kursk incursion succeeded to the full extent, we would have had much better conditions now for anything, would have precluded any attack on the Sumy region from that side, given the area where our forces were operating. We are already showing for the whole world to see that we can fight on the territory of Russia without worrying about the possibility of a nuclear strike or something of that kind, and fight at the time when the West is apprehensive of supplying the weapons we need in fear of some kind of escalation, etc. And in this way, we shamed our enemies, did something that perhaps no one did before, showed that we are not afraid and can fight.
– Basically, looking at the frontline situation, we see that it has become more complicated. Do you think this is because of the slow-down in aid from our partners, or a shortage of people, or something else?
– There are many different factors involved here. We need to understand that we are fighting a country that has quite powerful resources: human, technical, energy, etc., that is, they can provide large-scale combat capabilities. Second, we need to understand that our partners, sad to say, are scary of making decisions, of seeking justice, they banned us for a long while from striking deep into the enemy’s territory, thus facilitating their war on our territory, helping them eliminate us. For some reason, it seems to me that the West is losing us and more, no one owes us anything any longer, but we have to continue fighting.
One more thing we need to understand is that most of our nation are lacking awareness, unfortunately; people are not ready to go sacrifice something, are not ready to go to war, defend their country, not ready to defend our borders, etc. This is our shared problem; there is something that someone else should have done, but hadn’t, there is the opposing side that is fighting against us, these are quite complex issues.
– How to motivate people?
– You can motivate in different ways. I think motivation is not the most important part to this all. We must have discipline first, and once discipline is in place, you can motivate. We can take any example: people, animals, etc. are taught something (there is no one who is born with extraordinary skills in everything), that is, they went through a certain learning process. Let’s take sports: you train yourself, repeat the same exercises over and over again, compete, lose, get up and move on… And then, when you reach a certain level, you know how to do something, then you can be motivated, when you are confident in yourself, when you know that you can show something – exactly the same situation is here too. As long as we are unable to sort things out within our country, make difficult decisions, hold those guilty accountable, we cannot talk about motivation. Let’s start with discipline, let’s start simply with enforcing laws and rules. Once this begins working in our brains, we can move on to the issue of motivation.
– Do Russians have discipline?
– They do, but they don’t always achieve it with humane methods. I think everyone has seen videos of executions, beatings, etc., but it works in their army, unfortunately. I’m not saying that we should do the same, no, in no case, it’s wrong. But accountability should be in place for refusals, for non-compliance, for other wrongdoings.
– On your page on a social network, I encountered a short post reading that we continue fighting the remnants of Soviet legacy in our army, substituting the concept of discipline with something else. What is this about?
– Discipline is often erroneously perceived to be a remnant of Soviet legacy (or what is often termed unofficially as “sovok”). When you are told to do something what you don’t want to, because you are, damn it, a free person with all the rights that were granted to you through television or the Internet, etc., not understanding the value of the fact that what you need to do now will benefit you yourself or will save the lives of personnel or someone else. We say: oh, this is sovok, because they didn’t heed me. No, I repeat it again: there are certain rules set in place, never mind the military service where life and health risks are far higher than elsewhere. Failure to comply with these rules must be punishable, period. We must cultivate discipline so that these rules are observed under any circumstances. People may say that this is sovok. This is not sovok. Instead, sovok is where you are given stupid orders, sovok is where they fight with numbers on paper but not with quality, sovok is where human life is not valued, where completion of the task is placed above all else. These are the aspects where we try to combine or try to identify the concepts that are not identical.
– Do you see any positive changes taking place within the military?
– There are some, there are changes that can be noted. I can say that many worthy people have gone higher, have been promoted to lead combat and other units, they are transforming the environment surrounding them. This positive process is progressing, albeit not quite at the pace we would like it to progress, but there are lots of factors that affect this. We can also look at the issue such as the pace of our development, technological, for example, our use of drones, long-range UAVs. That is, there are things, certain projects that we are implementing, they produce results, and we would hardly have achieved this if it hadn’t been for the war. Take, for example, the well-known project such as surface drones, with which we sank half the enemy fleet. We did not have this before, it is unlikely that anyone used it before, at least as effectively as we do. I think this is what has gone down in history.
We can look at the development of UAV technologies like the [night-capable heavy hexacopter] Vampire (Russian soldiers call it “Baba Yaga”), etc. This all emerged when we encountered a particular challenge, had to find a solution to emerging threats. I think that, in reality, there may be more such technologies, it is just not always possible to see it in the conditions we are in.
– You have said several times that you are not a career serviceman, not a professional soldier, but have become a military man, even more military than usual. Don’t you think these concepts are a little bit opposite? What do you mean by saying you are “too military”?
– First, I will explain about non-professional soldier. This is probably more of sarcasm, because I have lived a certain part of my life within military environment, and it has had its impact on me. Having said that, I understand something, albeit not everything, of course. And opinions of the people who have gone this path must be heeded. Therefore, there are things that I can argue against. Where my arguments are not listened to, I admit: well, I am not a professional military. Regarding the fact that I have become too military now, there are words in my vocabulary that that I use: military terms, attitude towards people, more conversations in an imperative mood, etc. There is a phenomenon such as professional deformation of a non-professional military.
– Would you like to take off your military uniform after the victory? Would you change this job for a civilian one?
– Honestly, I would like to.
– What would you do?
– I don’t know, or maybe I do, but I won’t disclose it yet.
– What annoys you the most as a military man?
– Above all else, this is perhaps irresponsibility, carelessness, fear of taking on the initiative and then being responsible for the consequences.
– What was your first thought when you got out of encirclement?
– There was a very strong fear. And when everyone gathered around me, I was so relieved, just happy to see everyone alive, happy to be alive myself, and I realized how lucky I was.
– What is the greatest reward for you?
– My personnel, when I see their burning eyes after completing a task, their motivation, when they are simply happy.
– Who is not afraid when at war?
– Sick people or those who have already crossed over a certain line, who are on the verge of mental disorder, have no fears.
– What will victory mean to you?
– When we will become a country that everyone will look up to.
– What can never be forgiven?
– Almost everything can be forgiven.
– What is your biggest motivation in life?
– First of all, it is my family, my kids whom I protect.
– What is the first thing you will do after we win?
– Ride somewhere on a motorcycle.
– It is a wonderful dream, and it will definitely come true. Thank you for this interview.
Interviewed by Diana Slavinska
The interview can be watched in full here
Source: Oleksandr “Genius” Shyrshyn, battalion commander at the 47th Mahura OMBr
